#155: Ivor Cummins – the COVID struggle between Honesty vs Hysteria

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Ivor Cummins joins us for a part 3 in early Jan 2021 on the COVID response and narrative – this time with a stronger emphasis on the human struggle and emotions associated with being cognitively and societally isolated.

This episode is more of a thinking and emphasising discussion, whilst still keeping a firm hand on the technical aspects that people need to hear. Philosophical, empathic, principles and emotional connection.

This is a side of Ivor that people don’t see as much. His passion for history, his warrior-like strength of character, and his capacity to emphasise with those that are struggling with being a lone wolf  in this fight of honesty vs hysteria.

I suspect a lot of people will be able to relate to the struggles discussed here, and may well find strength and/or acceptance in being part of this much needed discussion.

We chat about how Ivor is coping, where he finds his motivation and strength, how he manages his bias, and the painful reality for many of being ostracised. Not just problems – we also touch on some sound advice on how to navigate this time.

We talk about some country COVID specifics and do a big deep dive into the UK winter resurgence / second wave situation. Did Ivor get it wrong? What data and signals do we need to track? How would Ivor characterise what we are seeing?

The UK Hospital Pressure. The UK Variant. The multitude of WHO pivots and why they are committed to illogical positions such as Case Definition and Death Cert guidance? 

Lastly but perhaps most importantly – what would a cunning Govt do to engineer out of the hysteria and claim victory in the next few months by gaming nature?

It’s THE covid conversation you’d love to have, if you could find someone on the same wavelength, a deep thinker, and who is intensely researched on the science and politics.


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Here’s what we discuss:

  1. How is Ivor and his family handling the abuse, trolling, debunking and defamation attempts?
  2. What drives Ivor to keep going, given the there is so much establishment opposition?
  3. How is Ivor managing his mental, emotional and psychological health?
  4. The world is becoming very soft – what Ivo has learned from his WW2 obsession?
  5. Talking about the immense loneliness people are experiencing  – both cognitively and socially
  6. Is there a political escape, or have they now made their bed and need to lie in it forever?
  7. Ivor’s darkest time during the whole pandemic, and it’s significance
  8. Can everyone be a warrior and fight relentlessly whilst accepting the worse case potential?
  9. Does Ivor have a bias, does he defend his ego, and how does he commit to the honest scientific process?
  10. The scientific process – to not prove your hypothesis right, but to…
  11. Being confident in the right answer is not enough. You need to stand up and say it…
  12. Speaking about some country specifics – Sweden, Florida, South Africa, Ireland
  13. Deep dive into the UK Winter Wave/ Resurgence & Excess Mortality – Did Ivor and co get it wrong? What metrics and analysis are important?
  14. 29 papers and counting disproving the effectiveness of masks. We discuss the latest Denmark study
  15. The multitude of WHO pivots – Masks, Lockdowns, Seasonality & Asymptomatic Transmission
  16. Why are the WHO sticking to a symptomless Case Definition and dodgy Death Cert guidance?
  17. Ivor’s thoughts on the reality of the Winter Hospital Pressure in UK & I
  18. What can we discern regarding the new variant?
  19. How would Ivor carefully engineer events and game nature to back out of the hysteria and declare Govt and Global victory?

Where to find IVOR CUMMINS and his work:

Referenced Content:

  • AdapNation Ivor Cummins Interview (pt1) – #132
  • AdapNation Ivor Cummins Interview (pt2) – #143
  • 29 Lockdown Ineffectiveness papers, including the Denmark study – here


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18 thoughts on “#155: Ivor Cummins – the COVID struggle between Honesty vs Hysteria

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  1. Hi Steve, and Ivor when you see him!, thank you for this!, I have been an avid follower of Ivor and his work for several months and nothing that he has said here alters my opinion!.
    Many of the issues he refers to are ones that have troubled me for fifty five years!, one of my early experiences was at school when I was about thirteen!, I got caught up in passionate argument with some classmates who insisted that I was pro Russia, we were in the throws of the ‘cold war’ at the time!. I tried to convince them that just because I was there to challenge some of the anti-soviet propaganda did not mean that I was ‘on their side’, just that I wanted to keep an open mind. I was then very shocked to be told by one of them with the full support of the others that I had to take one side or the other!, there can be no neutrality!, the reason I was so shocked was that it had never occurred to me that such a concept was acceptable!.
    From then on I knew that I was always going to be there out on my own and for a long time I was very angry, frustrated and lonely!. Gradually I learned to communicate better and stay with our common ground until a good relationship is established, always all I had to fall back on was my principles!, as for Ivor you can only guess how pleased I was to encounter the work of KRP, his books were not published in English until the early nineteen seventies!, ever since I have been saying that ‘the logic of scientific discovery’ should be compulsory reading in all secondary education!.
    On the topic of trying to deal with the same natural weaknesses of human perception, confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance I am sure that I cannot trust myself!, everything that I come up with has to be peer reviewed. I have to communicate with others and actively seek constructive criticism!. This does become a habit and gets easier!, in fact when I want to say anything controversial it always goes over better if I preface my remarks with a request for challenge!, of course any rejections have to have some factual foundation!, I don’t abandon a hypothesis just because someone doesn’t like it!. Underlying this and absolutely fundamental to how it works is that while any refutation of the commonly held concepts have to be solid I do not need to assert that anything I say is true!, all I have to do is put it out there and see what I get!, I am not doing any of this to prove anything!, all I want to do pass on some of the advantages of clear thought and critical conversation.
    The talk of the second wave issue is always very clouded!, in principle a second wave has to occur in exactly the same location or community!, even when the later outbreak is in a closely adjacent population it is still not a second wave!s. So far I have not been able to identify a real second wave anywhere!, all of the recent winter surges can be explained by the huge increases in PCR false positives! combined with a slight resurgence in seasonal infections, mostly due to climate and confinement!. The fundamental character of a second wave must display the same trajectory as the ‘first’ one!. The so called ‘second’ wave is just the mis-reading of seasonal increases and endemic disease!. Cheers, Richard.

  2. Thanks so much for this! I was used to being isolated in my ideas as a low-carber, with friends and family taking the opposite, mainstream view. So I guess I just accepted at first that I would be isolated when I continued to follow the science, via Ivor and others, when it came to the most important issue of our lifetimes. Only recently have I realised how stressful it has been (and continues to be) to see where this is heading and yet to be beating my head against a brick wall. My partner and most of my friends all swallow the official narrative, and just don’t want to look at the reality or science, so my life is filled either with arguments or awkward avoidance of the issues, neither of which paths I’m happy with. This is the first podcast I know of which addresses this situation, or something similar, and I’m really grateful to you for going out on a limb yourself – it does help!

    1. Ah thank you Steph – glad it connected with you. It really is a tough time at the mo for those who can think rationally. One flew over the cuckoos best definitely comes to mind…

      Please hang in. Truth and sanity will breakthrough at some point. x

      If you are able to leave a quick rating/review on your podcast app or at TP that would be most helpful. Thanks. 👍🏼 https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/adapnation.io

  3. This is a ghastly experiment to see if CO2 levels drop after 18 months of low economic activity. Load up on Vitamin D
    one of the few ways of increasing man kinds ability to deal with novel virus’s.

  4. Ivor talks so eloquently about society being lost in Netflix, tech and all the other changes that are happening and have misplaced their learnings, beliefs and values. I think people have sold their souls to distract from the inevitable. All in the name of safety. Let’s brush it under the carpet and perhaps it will never happen. Unfortunately we are not immortal.

  5. Brilliant … a life line to those of us who watch in silence not out of fear but restraint!
    This is further confirmation that the world of politics and lack of leadership has gone mad!
    For the first time in my life (March – April – May) I felt alone intellectually … I thought i was either crazy and stupid or arrogant to think I saw and understood things that 99 % of fellow humans could not see? On a good day i thanked my parents for a european education … on a bad day I felt that the world today is full of weak cowards that do not deserve the luxuries they have!

    A saddened veteran who would think twice of going to war again for my fellow snowflake oxygen thieves!

  6. What a brilliant and erudite discussion. Thank you, Steve, for sharing this. I have followed Ivor and his like-minded pals, and his near superhuman efforts for some time, and this just adds to my fulsome respect for the man. Tom Paine was of a similar mould, and I sent Ivor my favourite Tom Paine quote a while back in respect of this sordid debacle. It is as apt now as it was back then.

    “It is with a pious fraud as with a bad action; it begets a calamitous necessity of going on.”
    – Thomas Paine

  7. I really appreciate the calm truthful data you give and find your videos a breath of fresh air from the propaganda on every channel every day.I have been interested to know where the UK govs borrow the debt ,but have been blocked when trying to research this unless on BBC and newspaper sites.I think it’s really important as each day we are billions more in debt and who our governments owe money to obviously hold incredible power and profit from the poverty and debt of the covid response lockdowns and restrictions.Do you know who the debt is owed to?

  8. I bought in to this madness back in April 2020, believing it to be the Thanos thumb snap, I had the Virus, I was ill for a few weeks, very odd symptoms.. I was a zealot, barking at people for not following the guidance, all that stuff. I decided to look for Scientific proof that it and my actions were all justified, I couldn’t find any.
    Weeks and months of research came to one conclusion:

  9. Just listened to this podcast and it is excellent and very informative. I have been following Ivor Cummins for over a month now and he has become the voice of reason and common sense throughout this very bizarre long episode of Covid hysteria which, frankly, is all I can describe it as. I agree with Ivor Cummins if this had been labelled as a serious influenza and people identified it as such I think the reaction would have been more diluted. Steve Katasi is an excellent interviewer and I have listened to a few of his podcasts, he asks searching open questions and allow the interviewees to express their views. Well done.

    1. In this crazy world of broken and frankly fraudulent mainstream narrative I am so thankful that Ivor and all his other truth seeking comrades exist and are speaking out and holding steadfast. Belief and search for the truth is the most difficult path in this world right now. It would be so much easier mentally to go with the government line and just accept and believe what is happening, like so many people are (cannot understand it and I have really been able to see the lack of intelligence and free thinking in the people who I thought were intelligent and scientifically minded). BUT those of us who are just normal.people wanting the truth and who hold our principals dear (as many seem to not have for some reason that I cannot fathom) will not give in to this utter utter fraudulent game that is being played. I question most days if it’s me that’s wrong. Like most probably do. It’s gaslighting on a monumental scale. Utterly depressing but there is no way on this earth that I will give up my own mind to this tyranny (short of harm to my children). Ivor is an absolute beaming light in these crazy times and I am so thankful that he is as strong and capable as he is. Keep up the fight Ivor, and all.of you who seek the truth. I hold.on to the premise that truth will prevail but I am in no doubt that it will be a long long game.

  10. Another excellent discussion, a pleasure to listen to. My only gripe is that there have now been so many of these; yet those in power remain undeterred in their wanton destruction and unwilling to debate intelligent contrarians. Maybe we should all stop tripping over ourselves to say we’re not going down the conspiracy route. Nations locked at home, muzzled, unemployed and desperate whilst their previous wealth flows up. Somethings going on and it ain’t healthcare. Keep up the great work.

  11. Just started to listen to this. I’ve followed Ivor from September when the penny finally dropped that things no longer felt right. His deep data was deeply appealing

  12. Ivor, I’m with you fella. How can I get you to understand that I mean that? I can’t really. If I somehow could, and believe me I’m here for you and the team, I would happily come to your aid and your assistance if asked. I do believe that you, above most, matter in this battle. Take special care my friend, Shaun

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